tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7152221.post110793615787109359..comments2024-03-23T07:49:50.940-05:00Comments on The Middle Ground: The New Revolution: Libertine Liberal vs Classic LiberalUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7152221.post-1112845550719928432005-04-06T22:45:00.000-05:002005-04-06T22:45:00.000-05:00Lutheran and Baptist. I'm not sure which one was ...Lutheran and Baptist. I'm not sure which one was more influential. My parents being of split denomination.<BR/><BR/>I believe that religion has important aspects that should not be denied or destructed by society yet I worry about the tone of some congregations.<BR/><BR/>However, I am reminded by the example of Aaron as they waited for Moses to come down from the mountain...<BR/><BR/>Sometimes, worshipping the golden calf can have dire results and I feel as the tribes must have felt, waiting for a "true" word and some sort of deliverence, impatient and thus forming their own guide.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05208095650375780838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7152221.post-1112838847099967972005-04-06T20:54:00.000-05:002005-04-06T20:54:00.000-05:00Gee, I guess I'm still officialy a Methodist, thou...Gee, I guess I'm still officialy a Methodist, though I attend Episcopal services when I do go to church. I'm afraid my default religion is Deist. (i.e., there's somebody out there somewhere, very like Sir John Gielgud, laughing at us. Oh, I'm Justthisguy at The Donovans, and other places. tregonsee@att.netAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7152221.post-1109717530215113752005-03-01T16:52:00.000-06:002005-03-01T16:52:00.000-06:00tone..nice of you to stop by.
I think that's what...tone..nice of you to stop by.<br /><br />I think that's what I'm asking for. A renewed sense of responsibility. We can have that and freedom. We can have sex and be responsible. We can have everything.<br /><br />I think also that we have not gone completely crazy, but honestly, there's just enough crazy out there to make you worried.<br /><br />I wanted to comment on something Cig said, too, because I agree that the advent of larger immigration of more religiously adherent groups like latinos may be a bit of the impetus that is driving some of the newer version of conservative society.<br /><br />I think there is a lot to be said for parents telling their children about the realities of their behaviors and setting some expectations. <br /><br />I think that is where we may have went wrong as well. We as a society were so worried about the mental health of our children and trying out new forms of parenting that we forgot the simple things like discipline, expectations, responsibility.<br /><br />I wonder if every generation worries about it after they leave their hell raising youth behind?<br /><br />I recall the number of times my father or other adults would tell me not to do something or to look out for certain things because they knew, they'd been there and done it. Even if I didn't heed every word, I remembered what they said and it was always in the back of my mind when I was doing something.<br /><br />Have we lost that? Are we too busy like they say we are?<br /><br />We don't have to get crazy but we need to get something. <br /><br />Of course, the minute you mention it, people get all wanky on you and start talking about "religious zealotry" as if that was the only thing that was reminding us to be concerned or driving us to worry about our culture.<br /><br />Frankly, I don't mind a little religion. On the other hand, I don't really care for jerry falwell either. But, I think there are some great pastors in our community that are more savvy about the issues facing their communities and aren't going around talking about hell and damnation so much how to keep there communities on the right path, the responsible path.<br /><br />But, that's just my take.<br /><br />However it works out, a little personal responsibility needs to be the key words we focus on. Not intolerance, but understanding the consequences of choices.<br /><br />The other thing, while parenting groups, community groups, etc are great organizing, I think it's about "personal" responsibility and I wonder if parenting groups aren't a crutch?<br /><br />Just some thoughts.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05208095650375780838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7152221.post-1109708819366758872005-03-01T14:26:00.000-06:002005-03-01T14:26:00.000-06:00"We need a little re-awakening of the parental res..."<I>We need a little re-awakening of the parental responsibility and social norms factor here, not federal budgets and an anonymous teacher trying to impart knowledge without the context of respect and responsibility.</I>"<br /><br />Exactly! Well said. <br /><br />Liberalism requires personal responsibility; the very thing most (not all) libertine-liberals refuse to espouse.Jason Rubensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09028465657976012846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7152221.post-1109692208668734632005-03-01T09:50:00.000-06:002005-03-01T09:50:00.000-06:00Don't get me wrong, I'm not worried about what peo...Don't get me wrong, I'm not worried about what people do in their bedrooms or privacy of their homes. I do think that there is a backlash coming from all the "in your face" libertine behavior.<br /><br />You know when "leather shops" featuring harnesses and gag devices in their display windows reside next to the local pharmacy downtown, that's pretty in your face and pretty much starts people wondering what the hell we're doing.<br /><br />This I actually wrote in a studious manner but I had a rant going on about sexual irresponsibility. The continuing rise of aids and other STDS along with the nasty advent of normalized abortions seems to point to a serious problem with people taking some responsibility in sexual relationships.<br /><br />Again, I'm not talking about labeling people as adulterers or pre-marital sex being something wrong so much as the sexual revolution did not bring with it the responsible behavior.<br /><br />I'm also concerned that we are sexualizing our youth at a younger and younger age. I'm not trying to be blind because adolescents are prone to experiment or just become more aware, but we did lose something in the respect and responsibility part here and that concerns me.<br /><br />I don't think sex education in school improves it. I don't think teaching children about condoms and use in school improves it either. Government programs are not what we need.<br /><br />We need a little re-awakening of the parental responsibility and social norms factor here, not federal budgets and an anonymous teacher trying to impart knowledge without the context of respect and responsibility.<br /><br />My last concern is that we try to, as you put it, move back to the other extreme. Certainly, it won't change sexuality, just hide it away again. But, a little more judicious "right and wrong" and some recognition about the realities of human nature might go a long way.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05208095650375780838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7152221.post-1109642933682695232005-02-28T20:08:00.000-06:002005-02-28T20:08:00.000-06:00The fly in the ointment of a culturally conservati...The fly in the ointment of a culturally conservative (anti-libertine) utopia in America was Thomas Jefferson. He introduced a very canny test of any behavior to decide whether it was within the just powers of government to regulate: <br /><br />1) Does it pick my pocket?<br />2) Does it break my leg?<br /><br />No? Then don't ban it.<br /><br />At first this was merely applied to religious speech, and most especially to CHRISTIAN sects who didn't adhere to the theology of the larger, more popular religions. "It does me no injury if my neighbor says there is no God, or Twenty. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."<br /><br />This seedling of attitude sprouted and grew to strong trunks and branches, and after Gerald Gardner invented Wicca off the top of his head in 1937, with the motto "An it harm none, do as thou wilt" (which in postmodern English means "Do whatcha wan', just don't hurt nobody"), that extended the stamina of the new libertine ideology even more.<br /><br />Next thing you know, women are showing MORE than just a glimpse of stocking.<br /><br />The rest is recent history.<br /><br />While part of the stamina of the new cultural conservatism is rooted in a simple backlash against we libertines (and I classify myself as one who does adhere to a "just don't hurt anybody" rule of thumb for domestic policy) in those instances where things are taken too far (such as slamming "MY TWO GAY SWISHER DADDIES" replete with gay porn, into the faces of kindergarteners instead of just telling older kids not to violently gay-bash); and in some cases it could be attributed to a new surge of Christian zealotry and faith; but I think where the rubber really meets the road is that it's a sign that the floodgates are opening and blacks and Latins are crossing over to the conservative camp.<br /><br />The stodgy, stoic black grandma in the movie "Ladykillers" is a good icon to use for the black side of the phenomenon. There is firm Christian belief in many sectors where such belief is all they have to hold onto and retain dignity, in areas of ghetto violence, etc.<br /><br />And for the Latinos, well, Catholic is woven into their DNA, ever since Hernando Cortez whacked anybody in Tenochtitlan who dared say otherwise.<br /><br />Yes, libertine behavior does need to scale back a tad and not be so "in your face". But then when you get the opposite extreme, well, that would be the worldwide movement we're fighting in the middle east right now.Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Fileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11847781147692094361noreply@blogger.com